another nice device for the Efika, a double CompactFlash IDE adapter. Ideal for a silent low power Efika laptop. This one is from Addonics : http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_ ... midecf.asp

Hi !
Here is my opinion about this "Efika laptop project" :

Reading this thread and some ideas, I think this is not going the right way as it seems that there are a few unrealistic propositions above. This can not be the dream laptop, it has to be realistic !

To have a decent laptop that can be sold, we abolutely need :
- low price
- low size
- low power consumption
- discriminent features compared to a x86 laptop

OK, I agree that we already have the low power consumption and low size mainboard but making a low price laptop with discriminent features from it is really a very difficult (impossible ?) task.

For a low price laptop we need:
- an easy to build laptop case (but what company is going to build this in serial production for a low cost as the Efika mainboard is quite unstandard ? Remember how difficult it was to find a case ?). Is there an answer to this essential question yet ?
- a low cost screen (this has to be the lowest costing possible one. That implies low size but not too small I guess. I'm not aware of available technologies & sizes but this is a very important choice... no latest cool technology needed here !)
- an integrated keyboard (please, no waterproof keyboard, tablet screen or exotic and very expensive idea. This is supposed to be a laptop, not a carriable thing !). A touchpad would be also great (every laptop has one now but... is this possible for a low cost ?)
- A affordable hard disk with more than 4GB (exit CFlash even if it is noiseless)
- An integrated graphic chip (XGI's available on Efika v2 board ?)

For discriminent features:
- MorphOS support is needed (or the Efika laptop has no software discriminent compared to a x86 one which also supports Windows Vista :-(). What is the status of this ? We have no news at all since 4 months ! This is very important as most of the Pegasos users were MorphOS users !
- small small small... that can be THE discriminent feature so it implies a very small screen (but not too expensive - very difficult choice indeed)
- lowest price than a small x86 laptop (but that implies big selling volumes...) Now, to have an idea of the final price, if you consider that you can have a x86 2.2GHz laptop for only 470 euros (tax-less) with a better gfx chip and 512Mb RAM, that can also run Linux, it means that the Efika's laptop price should be under that price to be competitive (as it is less powerful)...

So I'm really sorry for being a bit negative here, but in conclusion, I think it will be very very difficult to get a sellable result with this laptop idea here...

I believe that might be a better idea to focus on current embedded devices or small computers applications proposed projects.

Anyway, you still have all my support if something producable gets out of this thread :-)

The biggest problem I see is that the EFIKA is
about 50 mm high with a 9200SE mounted.

Add a screen and plastics and you have another
20 mm. The machine will just be too thick to
consider a "laptop". It will be carriable as a
suitcase, but that's about it.

So my suggestion is that you purchase a
good-looking suitcase, install the EFIKA,
LCD, keyboard and all other necessary
items in that. Also make sure the USB-
connectors are accessable.

I think the focus in this thread is too much on a Laptop and not enough on a Portable EFIKA.
First of all, it won't be cheap in the beginning. The reason? Quantity. If you want to have it cheap as any x86 laptop, you would have to produce tens of thousands or ever hundreds of thousands of pieces.
Obviously, we don't have a market for this (yet).

Secondly, this is initially not intended to be a consumer product; more like a specialized tool.
One of the ideas we have is to build information kiosks (for banks, tourist info, email access, ...), which will use some of the technologies of the portable EFIKA at its core.

The advantage would be the power consumption: being able to deliver stunning graphical interfaces with very little power consumption is a key benefit for the markets we have in mind.

As soon as there is a feedback from these systems (i.e, money), we can focus on making this more of a consumer product, with all the bells and whistles mentioned elsewhere in this thread. - but only if we can find a substantial market for it.

These are just my opinions, and the way we at NordicAurum see this project. Others involved might have a different view.


Best regards,
Johan

_________________
Johan Dams, Genesi USA Inc.
Director, Software Engineering

Yep, I have a blog... PurpleAlienPlanet

I agree and looking at existing laptop projects the 100 dollar laptop project came to my mind: http://laptop.media.mit.edu/ Maybe something can be learned from that.

But in all i think that smaller (for laptop) means thing are more expensive and the only way of getting lower prices is buying things in larger quantities, but as (as far i see) this project is nog going to be produced in large quantities, this laptop propably is nog going to be competitive in price. But than that will be the challenge.

Should this thread be split up in parts discussing each of the additional parts in its own thread:
-case
-screen
-keyboard
-touchpad
-battery system
-manufacturing
-customer wishes/demands
That would make things clearer than keeping things in one thread as i feel thing are becoming cluttered in this thread.

I completely agree with Johan. IMHO, it doesn't matter if it's a laptop or a portable, as long as it is really "portable", ie light and small. For example, the imac series is very successful just because of this reason (plus it's sexy and cheap :-) ). It's very easy to transport in big volumes (eg. a company buying imacs for its customers), or to carry around from your home to your resort, etc.

I think the imac-style design is the way to go. A laptop offers extra difficulty in packing all of the components in extra small space. An imac is small but offers slightly more freedom in the design and arranging of the components, which means lower costs.
While I agree that this is definately a target marget for a portable efika, I don't think we should rule out the consumer/business target markets. Esp. the thin client solution, in which the efika is already a player.
In terms of power consumption, I think we might want to offer even some form of power autonomy features, like a solar power supply that plugs directly into the portable -ie, without requiring extra conversion into 110/220V output. This way, the efika should pave the way into markets that right now have zero penetration from other products -eg. schools in Africa that have no power connection around.

As for the OS, I think Linux is the obvious choice. Apart from some embedded/special uses, MorphOS would not sell to the general public, imho.

Konstantinos

Hi.


Those markets are not ruled out. We just have to be able to justify large quantities before going there.
The thin client solution, see here: (http://projects.powerdeveloper.org/project/efika/338 and http://www.nordicaurum.com/index.php?section=14)is one of the markets which will hopefully bring in enough return to focus on other options.
One of the options might be something like this:http://projects.powerdeveloper.org/project/efika/60
We're already working on this. We hope to have an entire thin client set-up like mentioned above running on a combination of solar and wind energy in Algeria. Furthermore, the portable EFIKA would be used as a data terminal/logger for projects in the Sahara desert. This will be a solar powered device.

Depends. As an information access point and some other applications I have in mind, MorphOS might actually be a better solution than Linux. Also, the computer for children project above could use MorphOS - keeping boot times extremely low for instance.


Best regards,
Johan

_________________
Johan Dams, Genesi USA Inc.
Director, Software Engineering

Yep, I have a blog... PurpleAlienPlanet

OK, I think there is something not very clear in this thread. Are we talking about a "portable EFIKA" (thread topic) or an "EFIKA laptop" (first post of bbrv in the thread)...

My above opinion was (you may have guessed) about the laptop project which I think is very difficult to do for a decent price...
But about the "portable Efika", I think there are more options and possible ideas...

So maybe this topic should now be splitted in several parts ("portable", "laptop", ...) ?

i think everyone should stay focused on the Open Client concept.

Building an Efika Laptop with a keyboard, a gfx card and a HD doesn't make much sense, what would be the purpose of such a device ? who would be interested in such a low end and expensive laptop ? There is no market for this. I can only think of a few MorphOS geeks dreaming of a MOS laptop. This is not a market.
The 100$ laptop is already taking this, with high quantities and reduced costs.

Building a portable Efika, such as a tablet-Efika as a Portable Open Client (POC) makes more sense. With the gfx-on-board version of the Efika and a tiny flash drive it would make an interesting consumer device, something you could just take with you around and use to access your media content or other ressources you may share from your other computers, or your home PC.

The Efika IMHO has not enough horse power to be a standalone device, it must be part of something. It must be an extension, an interface.

SSQ: I agree with you (except on the HD point which I'd prefer to an expensive CFlash [speaking of Euros/Mb])
Yes, gfx-on-board is mandatory that's what I think too, but in conclusion this is not very portable indeed because, as you say, it must be part or something (connected to a server in a way) and at the end it is not that small...

I believe that something really portable and independant must be either enough powerful (for a standalone laptop) or much smaller (for a standalone portable MM device for example). But in both case the Efika design does not seem adequate (non standard board, not enough small or powerful)...
The Pegasos could have done a (quite big) laptop but wouldn't have been a good portable device. The Efika can be a portable device if part of something bigger... So, as you say, the "POC" approch seems the good one.

Hey i did a papermodel of my portable-imac-efika to see how large it would be with a 12" screen. Its portable and i think its cool as a sub-imac could only be.
CF is not good for a OS like Linux (swapping)we must use a HD

Hi.
We can easily use a CF card; swap space is not really necessary for quite some applications.
Secondly, we can use the GFX card memory as swap, I have this working, but there are still a couple of minor problems. :-)


Best regards,
Johan

_________________
Johan Dams, Genesi USA Inc.
Director, Software Engineering

Yep, I have a blog... PurpleAlienPlanet

Hi Johan ; )
A CF-Slot isn`t bad but it is no adequate replacement for a harddisk. Please go to page 1 and read what one of our targets are (Point one in BBRV`s post). Its impossible to use a Officesuit like OO without swapping if you have only 128MB RAM.
I would say this is one of the "Bells and whistles" ; )
A CF in addition to MorphOS or native AROS would be a better solution(but its in the moment not possible).

Best ragards

Hi.
Forget about Open Office on the EFIKA. Even if you would have a lot of RAM, it would be too slow.
Try AbiWord with Gnumeric or something. Maybe even KOffice.

And together with an extra 100MB from the GFX card memory, this is definately no problem.
Furthermore, a CF system adds to the robustness of the system, which is one of the main requirements - and could differentiate this system from other laptops.


Best regards,
Johan

_________________
Johan Dams, Genesi USA Inc.
Director, Software Engineering

Yep, I have a blog... PurpleAlienPlanet

using OpenOffice on the Efika is a weird idea. Instead of comparing the Efika with a desktop machine or trying to apply an ordinary user behaviour on it we should move forward and create something new. Use your imagination, the Efika is a fantastic tool to build something that was never done before, expand your views, don't try to replicate what you've seen before.
I wish i had engineer talents to do it, i can only think abstract !