In that case, how about basing it on the 8377E instead? Still an e300 chip, but on top of the higher clock frequency it would bring some nice interfaces compared to the 5200b, like dual SATA2, dual gigabit ethernet, USB2, PCE-e, etc...

A man after my own heart..

The real problem is it doesn't implement the flexible serial controllers nor the wealth of GPIO of the MPC5200B. There is no place to simply attach an AC97 or I2S audio controller. It would have to have PCI Express audio - that's kind of an expensive solution (I can't even think of an affordable PCI Express audio controller right now).

I do think the MPC8377E is a much better chip and if we're looking at higher performance graphics cores then PCI Express is kind of useful - but a lot more expensive and potentially more power hungry than the older PCI/AGP cores.

There are a lot of other things the MPC5200B (and MPC5121e) targeted at automotive entertainment and general multimedia applications does, which the MPC837XE does not because it's meant as a phone switch and networking solution.

We didn't spend the last couple years developing a board around the MPC5200B or MPC5121e to throw that experience away. How about starting again? I dunno..

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Matt Sealey

I alreday wanted to ask in another thread (but eventualy forgot it) which particular model your AC/DC psu is. My Morex seems to draw about 5 W. The netto uptake of my Efika at the outlet thus results in about 15W (w/o Display).
Still have to do the measurement at the 12V DC in line... What about publishing some information how to successfully populate the other two RAM positions on the back side of the Efika then?

Yeah.

Well, regarding the 8377E vs 5200B, perhaps what the 8377E may lack in GPIO and programmable serial controllers it may level up with the other on chip controllers? I mean, what's the purpose of the "Efika" (or whatever device)? To be used? How many GPIO's and programmable serial controllers will you need for the device in question? Looking at the 5200B, USB 1.1 only isn't really good enough today for *any* kind of device, other than as a way to connect some keyboard, mouse or similar. USB mass storage devices are *key* (and you will have to "HUB-up" to at least 4, preferably 6 or 8 on board USB2 connectors BTW). The crippled ATA/IDE of the 5200B is a major downer, and can you *really* only connect one ATA device, or is that an Efika design thing? This compared to 2x SATA2's. 10/100 Ethernet may work as long as you don't do any serious data transfers, but surely I'm not the only one juggling with music, photos, movies etc between various computers and devices in my gigabit home network? "A single PCI 2.2" interface won't beat a "PCI 2.3 + PCI-e x1 + PCI-e x1", right? Perhaps there aren't a lot of PCI-e audio controllers as of yet, but surely there may be some competent yet really cheap *regular* PCI audio controllers out there, and who knows, maybe such controllers could offer a sound quality beyond what's suitable for the regular "el cheapo" Walkman Earphones outdoors on a high traffic street? And yes (as you said), more memory in a new Efika design (DDR2 @ 400MHz in case of 8377E) will do wonders for Linux performance, and add 67% higher clock of the e300 to that, and things *may start moving* in comparison. And it seems to have the coherency thing...?

I have no idea about the price of the 8377E vs 5200B or 5121e, but as far as I have understood your talk about these two latter chips earlier, one of their main features (which seems to be so significant that it puts the importance of the other specs at second hand) is the price tag of the chips?

Well, I am still hoping for some 5121e device from you. But IMHO, the 5200B isn't an option, not for any kind of device. A 8377E + GFX + Audio could be interesting, spec wise at least. Would be interesting to know more about its price (and energy characteristics) compared to the two others...

While I think you have some points, I'd suggest not to give another e300 based chip a shot, but rather focus all energies and go full steam the 8610 route.
I really believe the ultra low wattage and ultra low cost devices would have a chance, but there is in rather small companies (I suspect Genesi/bplan is a rather small company (Genesi just isn't Sony, Toshiba or Asus)) only a limited ammount of man power and financial resources available.
The BOM is only part of the whole calculation, thus I guess the same 8610 design can be used to deliver several markets:
The very low wattage, very low cost market (take a 667Mhz 8610) and the mid range, low wattage, low cost media computer (a higher clocked 8610). Still I really would love to see an *ultra* low cost, *ultra* low wattage design (512* based or maybe 8377 based), *but* it seems the development of such a device is currenty just not viable to do (it's too expensive, the ROI not warranted), thus roll out the 8610 ASAP to deliver some momentum to the ppc market.


@ Genesi: While designing the 8610 board I very strongly suggest to keep one of the 512* board features: No need for ATX power supply, but instead a plain 5V DC input. It reduces the follow up costs a lot and simplifies some things.

Also, if another run of the Efika 5200B might be scheduled, better put 256MB RAM into it ;-). And *if* there are any resources left for another board revision, what about adding a high speed usb host controller to the board? I know, I suggested this years before already and I was told it would ruin the low cost desin, but anyway...

Why not 12V? Anyway an internal power supply is definitely on the wish list. Although if it ends up being ITX or larger, there's little point; any case you put it in will come with a PSU anyway. You'd waste $30 on the case cost just so you "didn't have to buy an extra PSU for the board".

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Matt Sealey

No prob, 12V are just as good (if not better (read:car)).

If one wishes to guarantee the death of a project of theirs, go ahead and work with the folks who started and funded LimePC.

:lol:

Hi Alex, you have posted this to your Project blog:

http://projects.powerdeveloper.org/project/efika/109

Hopefully, by now you and Ryan have recovered.

Here is the latest:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/21 ... cherrypal/

Also, this:

http://greentechgirl.com/green-computin ... cherrypal/

R&B :)

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http://bbrv.blogspot.com

Well for a car you'd need to accept varying voltages (you can never guarantee a clean 12V) but this is pretty much the same thing in the end.

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Matt Sealey

It appears to me that any technologically oriented company, as of late, with cherry in its name tends to be trouble.

CherryOS anyone?

As for Symphony OS, I am quite ready to reconvene development if Ryan ever finds his way back to the internet. In lieu of that, I'll continue my studies. :)

We noticed that when we started but, what can you do to change it? I didn't like the whole fruit thing either with LimeOS/PC/Book although at least it did not pretend that the hardware was trying to be your "friend" like Cherrypal :D

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Matt Sealey

Yeah, why can't the names come from *drinks* instead? 8-)

"Screwdriver" would be a suitable name for the LimePC - people are screwed, there are no drivers, and a screwdriver (the tool) might be required to turn it on, and a screwdriver (the drink) when you realizes the tool won't suffice. And I can think of a corporate trio that a couple of years ago shafted an entire community of loyal "A"-followers (paying *anything* for products beginning with the notorious "A"), and this would be a suitable name for a product from that trio.

Anyway Matt, no hardware can never become my friend, but BEER CAN! Friends can let me down, but THE BEER is ALWAYS here! ;-) :-D

Speaking of beer cans - make some e600 hardware that fits in a beer can, and I'll make it my friend despite what I may have said above... ;-)

Seriously, with a computer in a beer can, the Peg Microwave would clearly have to step aside! Talk about a cool custom case! :-) Imagine the possible slogan's and logotypes you could put on it! And what cool *custom cooling* you could make for it! May I introduce the beer can blade server rack (*high* density!):


And the MBP(tm) (Mobile Beer POWER) solution:


(I'm going to bed now, bored as I am...)

I'd say pick a Faxe can and try. Or a somethig bigger can like this:
But take care, crafting directly after emptying that may lead to some 'interesting' results.

If you go up in size even more, you could have...



...a KEGasos2! ;-)